FCP 117: Loan Servicing & Escrow – Featuring Terry White

Jack: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of “The Forever Cash Life Real Estate” podcast, where we talk about cash flow, how to create it, how to manage it, and today, we’re gonna talk about how to service it, right? We’re gonna talk about loan servicing, and escrow, and all those things around that with our guest expert, who has been in this industry for over 35 years. All right. Stay tuned. We’ll start in just a second.

Male: Welcome to the “Forever Cash Life Real Estate Investing” podcast with your host, Jack and Michelle Bosch. Together, let’s uncover the secrets to building true wealth through real estate and living a purpose-driven life.

Jack: All right. So, we’re back right now. And first of all, I wanna introduce our guests. Our guest, Terry White. Terry White lives in New Mexico, has been in the loan servicing, in the escrow business for how long, Terry?

Terry: Well, I was in the title business before this, so about 32 years and 4 years in the title business.

Jack: Thirty-six years. Wow.

Terry: Yeah.

Jack: So first of all, welcome to the show.

Terry: Thank you. Looking forward to talking to you.

Jack: So, yeah, Terry has quite a resume on there. He’s currently on the…or you can tell us better. You’re on a couple, or like an association on the board. The governor of New Mexico has put you in different things. Tell us your story. Tell us what you do. It’s a little bit [crosstalk 00:01:17].

Terry: Well, yeah. It’s a long story because I’m an old guy, Jack. But basically, I started the escrow company about 32 years ago. And that, for those of you, you guys probably know because you’re in the cash flow business, but it’s just a mortgage servicing for owner financing. So we service about 4,500 to 5,000 loans. And then about 15 years ago, I started a trust company, which we strictly handle self-directed IRAs, so you might wanna talk a little bit about that as we go along because people…

Jack: Sure. I would love to.

Terry: Yeah, they can buy, you know, debt in their IRA, which is maybe a great investment for them.

And then the association I’m involved with is called RITA, the Retirement Industry Trust Association. So I’m on the board of that association. And that’s just an industry association of other trust companies that handle self-directed IRAs, so I’ve served on that board for about six years. And then, I served on the New Mexico Finance Authority Board for the state of New Mexico for about six years. But my term ran out in 2016, so I haven’t done that for a while.

Jack: All right. So you’re only doing 8 things now instead of 10.

Terry: Yeah.

Jack: That sounds good.

Terry: Typical entrepreneur, right?

Jack: True entrepreneur. Yes. Tell me about it. The same over here. So tell me about a couple of these things. So where do you wanna start? Do you wanna start about the escrow business?

Terry: Sure.

Jack: How did you get into that and how does it work? Tell me a couple of things.

Terry: Well, how does an individual investor get into it? Is that what you’re asking, or how did I get into it?

Jack: Tell us what you guys do. You service loans. So, in other words, somebody has a loan, which actually fits perfectly because obviously, we are the land guys. We teach seller financing on land, lots of students all over the country who buy and sell land and sell it with seller financing. So, our students are generating hundreds of notes, if not thousands of notes a year, and you’re one of the companies that actually services them.

Terry: Absolutely. So, yeah, you guys already know exactly what we do. But basically, when your seller is acting as the bank, which is basically what they’re doing, we will service that for them. So the buyer of this property will make their monthly payments to Sunwest Escrow, and we keep track of the principal and interest and do whatever government reporting is required and then we send the money on to the seller or wherever the seller tells us to do that. So we see, and this may be what you do or what you talk about doing is we see a lot of situations where someone might go out and buy 10 acres and then divide it into 4, 2, and a half-acre parcels and sell those off on owner financing. And that’s where we step in then, we take that owner financing document, whether it be a land contract, a note mortgage, deed of trust, or here in New Mexico, real estate contract and then we service that according to the terms of that agreement.

Jack: Wonderful. And the nice part about the real estate contract, or as it’s often referred to a land contract, that in several states, including New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and several other ones probably, is you don’t actually have to do the foreclosure. Instead, you can…this contract follows a different protocol if somebody stops paying, right?

Terry: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: What is that protocol, for example, in New Mexico?

Terry: Well, yeah, I’m not sure about other states, but New Mexico I know very well because I’ve owned and created lots of contracts. So, in New Mexico, we have a thing called a demand letter. So if someone’s payment is not made, let’s say their payment’s due on the first and they don’t make the payment by close of business of our company, which is 5:00 on the 1st, the seller on that real estate contract can have a demand letter sent, which basically gives the buyer a period of time in which they can cure that demand, they can make that monthly payment.

There’s no statutory amount of time, but in New Mexico, through Case Law and stuff, we basically determined it has to be at least 30 days. So typically, the demand letter and what we call the cure default period is typically 30 days. So, once the seller sends that demand letter, the buyer has 30 days to cure that default and make the payment. If they don’t, which, you know, 90% of them do, but if they don’t, then the seller will present to us what’s called an Affidavit of Default, basically saying, you know, “We had this contract. They didn’t make the payment. I sent a demand letter, and the time ran out, and now I want the property back.”

And in New Mexico, when a contract is created, we hold a warranty deed and a special warranty deed. The warranty deed gets released if the buyer fulfills the terms of the contract and they own the property. That gives them clear title to the property. And if they don’t, in this demand situation that I just outlined, and they present the affidavit, we would then release the special warranty deed to the seller. They would record that and that gives back to them all interest, right, and title that the buyer had.

Jack: So, in other words, this is very cool. When the buyer comes and the seller meets with the buyer, whichever way, virtually or in person, the buyer does not just sign a deed, not just sign a sale agreement, but the buyer also signs a deed back to the seller, and the seller signs a deed to the buyer, and you guys hold both of those deeds in your files in escrow. And depending on what situation occurs, the payoff or the default with proof of it, you then record one or the other.

Terry: Yeah, exactly.

Jack: Wonderful. That’s Beautiful.

Terry: Yeah. So we call it a termination not a foreclosure, but it makes the termination easy. It also makes, you know, in the event the seller passes away or something before the buyer pays it off, we still have that warranty deed. So once the buyer pays it off, regardless of whether the money’s going to the heirs or whatever, we can give them clear title to that property.

Jack: Yes. That is beautiful. And that’s a wonderful way. That’s great. And that shows the importance of having somebody professional like you doing that part because that’s why we tell everyone that we teach, like, “Go use a loan servicing company that knows what they’re doing in the process so that exactly those things can happen.” Now, again, state by state is different, so, therefore, as a land flipper or a house flipper or note creator or buyer, you wanna inform yourself about the differences in these states because if I can just lay out quickly how it works in Arizona, in Arizona, you actually don’t have to do that. Well, keeping the deed from us would be a good idea, just in case if I pass away, you still have it, but the foreclosure deed, you don’t actually have to have that because there’s a statutory process that’s called the forfeiture. So it’s in the Arizona Revised Statute it exactly says, “Depending on how much equity they have gained in the deal already, you have to wait a certain time period and then you have to file a document similar to your demand. And if they don’t pay, three weeks later, you file a completion of that forfeiture, and then you’re done.” And that automatically reverts the ownership back to you, so there’s no need to file that special warranty deed.

But that’s how every state is different. But the nice part here is that you showed very beautifully and my example hopefully, too, is that there are states where you don’t have to go down to 6 months judicial foreclosure, $2,000, $3,000 for the attorneys or whatever the fees may be, but there’s ways that you can get it done much, much faster.

Terry: Exactly. Exactly. That’s interesting about Arizona. I wasn’t aware of that. So, once you file that completion of the process, whatever document that is, that makes the title revert back to the original seller.

Jack: The seller. Exactly right. And that’s entered in the Arizona Revised Statutes, so it’s not some policy somewhere. It an actual part of the statutes.

Terry: Yeah. Is that only…?

Jack: With the right wording and with the exact wording that actually, even the letter that you have to send them, the exact wording is in the statutes.

Terry: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s the same way it is here. The demand letter and stuff has to be the same way. So that’s very interesting. It’s always interesting how they do it different in every state. And again, like you said, I’m sure you have listeners all over the country and it’s very important that they take some time and do their own research and make sure they know how it’s handled in their state.

Jack: Yeah. Now, do you know what happened to history of these land agreements or these real estate agreements? Or is it…because I’ve always tried to figure out, kind of, like, how did they come about? Is it just something that to keep things easy or?

Terry: You know, I don’t know. I mean, my dad was in the building business. I’ve been around the real estate business all my life. And I know, you know, I mean, the older I get, it’s like maybe 60, 70 years ago, my dad was selling properties, he was a contractor, and he was selling properties and he would carry back a second position contract on a house. So, in other words, you know, the buyer would go and get a mortgage, but back in those days, you had to have 20% down to buy a house and so they would get an 80% mortgage, and then he might carry 15% back in a second real estate contract. So that’s been happening here for years and years. Now, one thing I was curious about in Arizona is does that document only apply to vacant land or does it apply to a home also?

Jack: It applies to the home, but once we get into the home, you get into Dodd-Frank, and I’m not an expert in Dodd-Frank, so I wouldn’t know what else that, all of a sudden, plays a role in. But I would assume that as long as you follow the Dodd-Frank rules of income verification, and ratios, and all this kind of stuff that we, as land people, don’t have to deal with, as long as you follow them, you could still use the land contract. As a matter of fact, actually, I met an attorney from a well-established law firm, who very adamantly made the case that you could use that real estate agreement, the land contract, for houses and because of that, you would actually operate outside of Dodd-Frank in the first place. So there seems to be some loopholes. But again, this is, you got to check with your attorney on that. From that point of view, it’s definitely possible to use it for houses, too.

Terry: That’s interesting. And this whole Dodd-Frank thing, it’s difficult for anyone to really understand how that applies to what we’re doing, because, you know, when they created that legislation in Washington, they were only really aware of a conventional-type mortgage. So you, kind of, have to almost try to read between the lines to figure out how that’s going to apply to an owner financing situation, but I think people just need to be careful. Here in New Mexico, you know, we feel like that if you do less than three or five a year that you don’t fall under the Dodd-Frank and what is it? The Reg Z and all that stuff. But, you know, if you do more than three, I think is what we’ve, kind of, settled on, then you really need to do the Truth-in-Lending disclosures and all that kind of stuff.

Jack: Absolutely. And even the land side of things, we have found that our legal advice tells us that we’re actually outside of Dodd-Frank because Dodd-Frank refers to everything as dwelling. And so anything that is under Dodd-Frank is a dwelling and the land, even if you put a tent on there, it’s not a dwelling, right, so, therefore, we don’t have to worry about it. We can do, as far as I know, over, like, 1,000 a year, and we still wouldn’t have to fall under that category.

Terry: Yeah, very interesting.

Jack: Very cool. Very, very good. Good. I’m enjoying this. So now let’s talk a little bit about the self-directed IRA. How did you get into that and how does it play with one or the other? And tell us how this all came about.

Terry: Well, like I said, I started the escrow company in 1987. And then about, you know, in the 2000s, early 2000s, I like to say, if you could fog up a mirror, you could get a mortgage, and so a lot of people were out getting mortgages, and they were paying off real estate contracts. So, where we used to set up, you know, we might set up 200 accounts a month, and we’d lose 50, so we’d grow every month. During that period of time, we set up maybe 100 accounts a month and we lost 300 accounts a month, because everybody was refinancing because it was easy to do and rates were lower, so we had to figure out something else to keep my business growing.

And I had some experience in the trust business. I’d started another trust company back in 1995. And so, I decided to start a trust company, and so that’s what we did. And we specialize strictly in self-directed IRAs. So we don’t do any traditional-type trust business. We strictly handle, act as custodian for self-directed IRAs. And so what a lot of people don’t know, most people don’t know, is that a self-directed IRA, you can invest in anything but life insurance and collectibles.

Jack: Right.

Terry: So that’s what we allow. We don’t deal with a lot of accounts that invest in stocks, marketable securities, and bonds, and mutual funds, and stuff. We leave that to the other big brokerage houses. But what we specialize in is allowing people to invest their individual retirement accounts in real estate, in land, in promissory notes, in precious metals. You know, just about anything you can think of excluding life insurance and collectibles, people can invest in.

Jack: Right. And even like gold, I think is limited, right, to a certain [crosstalk 00:15:01]?

Terry: Yeah, certain kinds of gold, certain purities, and that kind of stuff.

Jack: Yeah. Great. So, yeah. I mean, I think my audience is somewhat familiar with the concept of self-directed IRAs. But in essence, perhaps you can just summarize the basics of it just one more time for the occasional person that for whom that is their first time to hear about that.

Terry: Okay. So, you know, what we see is most people get their self-direct, get their IRA. First of all, every IRA is self-directed. It’s just a matter of the custodian. What the custodian will allow you to invest in. So, even if you have an IRA at your bank, it’s self-directed, meaning that you can choose what CD you wanna buy and, you know, you can choose the length of term, so you direct what you’re going to invest in. But with companies like mine, we allow you to invest in those nontraditional-type things. So if you were to go to your bank, or your broker, your Charles Schwab or somebody like that, and say, “I wanna buy a piece real estate in my IRA.” They might say, “You can’t do that.” They would definitely say, “We don’t do that.” So you would come to a company like…

Jack: They’ll probably say, “You can’t do that. It’s not allowed,” because their people are…they don’t even know. Their actual employees, and I’ve had that conversation, most of them don’t even know such a thing like, outside, like, self-directed IRA in the concept that we are talking about it even exists. Yeah.

Terry: Absolutely. And, you know, they’ll say, either, “Well, that’s way too risky. You don’t wanna do that. Or you can’t do it.” I mean, we have CPAs calling us weekly saying, you know, “I have a client that wants to do this and I’m telling him that it’s illegal, you know, but he won’t listen to me.” And we have to explain to the CPA, “No, it’s not illegal. You know, look at Internal Revenue Code Section 4975 and it explains to you that you can invest in anything other than life insurance and collectibles.”

Now, the other thing that you’re…so we’ve established that you can take your IRA and invest it in anything. So the people that listen to you, they can take their IRAs and invest it in land and buy that land and subdivide it or whatever they decide to do and turn around and sell it. And all of that money stays inside the IRA, and it grows either tax-deferred or tax-free, depending on the type of IRA they have. And so that’s always exciting to people because they say, “So you mean I can go buy this piece of land for $10,000, subdivide it, and sell it for $25,000, and the $15,000 I make is tax-free?” And the answer is yes, if it’s in a Roth account, then it’s tax-free. If it’s in a traditional IRA, it’s gonna be tax-deferred. You don’t pay taxes on it until you start taking it out.

The only other thing you have to be wary of is so anything but life insurance and collectibles, and then you have to watch who you invest with. There are people called disqualified parties. And if you invest your IRA with a disqualified party, that becomes a prohibited transaction and could cause your IRA to be disallowed, which means you’d have to pay all the taxes, and penalties, and all that kind of stuff on it. So the disqualified parties are yourself. So you can’t have your IRA buy a piece of land from yourself. And then your family is disqualified. So it’s interesting to me, though, the IRS defines family as ascendants and descendants, so your parents, grandparents, kids, grandkids. Your brother, your cousin, they are not defined as family, so you could actually have your IRA do business with those people.

Quick example of that, which was one of my favorite stories is we have a client. I’ve never met her. I’ve talked her on the phone several times. Seems like she’s an elderly woman. You know, I found out this last week when was at a RITA meeting that elderly now is defined as 55 and older, so I don’t think I appreciate that very much. But anyway, this lady is probably in her 70s, and her nephew buys and flips houses. And so she uses her IRA to lend money to her nephew to buy these houses. Her nephew pays her a better rate of return than she could get by putting it in the bank, maybe 6%, 8%, and the nephew is getting a better return than he could get from a hard money lender or something, so, it works out very well for both of them. But that nephew is not defined as a family member, according to the IRS, so that works fine.

Jack: Yes, wonderful. So, basically, the definition is you set up usually what people do and when, for example, the other thing we do is we invest in large apartment complexes, we syndicate them and we have investors invest from their self-directed IRA with us in these apartment complexes as passive investors. And what typically happens is they have a job, they have an IRA, and they can roll over the parts that they didn’t accrue while with that employer. So if they, 5 years ago, switched from one employer to another and then 15 years prior, worked for another employer, all that money that they rolled over from there to the new guy, they can use that and push that over into a self-directed IRA and then start investing in different deals with that. Start using it for a few land deals, start using that to invest passively, let’s say, in an apartment deal, etc., etc. And that’s usually the explanation we give. And, as you said, when they call Charles Schwab, and Vanguard, and [inaudible 00:20:25], they always get like, they have to fight quite a fight to get access to their money, because obviously, they don’t wanna give it up.

Terry: Exactly. And that takes…but it can usually happen. I mean, you could set up an account and get it funded with us in typically about two weeks. What usually happens is people call us and they got a deal that they have to get done yesterday and so it never works. Your listeners, if they decide to do something like this, they need to plan, I would say, you know, give themselves enough time and maybe plan a month that it’s gonna take to get the money rolled over. What you described from the 401(k) is called a direct rollover, and so, you know, that could take two or three weeks to get the money from the existing 401(k) rolled over into the new custodian.

I would also encourage your listeners to do their due diligence about the custodian that they’re going to use. Every custodian charges a fee for our service. We have to because we don’t earn any commissions or anything on the transactions like a bank or a brokerage house does, so we charge a fee for service. So they need to look and determine, number one, if the custodian they’re looking at will allow them to invest in whatever they’re wanting to invest in, let’s say, real estate at this point in time. Then, they wanna look at how the fees are charged and find the custodian that they can work with that have the most advantageous fees for them. Some custodians charge a fee per asset that you have in it, some charge more for real estate purchases. So they just have to do some research and figure out which is the best one for them.

Jack: Right. So now, having said that, like, typically, what fee structure do you have?

Terry: Well, our fee structure is very basic. I mean, we charge $50 to set up the account, and we charge $275 a year, regardless of the number of assets you have in your account, or the size of those assets. Now, the only other additional fee, well, there’s probably two additional fees. One would be we charge you a $10 check-writing fee every time we need to write a check out of your account, you request a check for something. And then, if there are fees, like, if you wanna have your money wired to someone, then we’ll just pass on to you whatever the bank, I think it’s $25, the bank charges us for a wire, so we pass on third-party fees.

Jack: Do you charge any transaction fees?

Terry: Well, the $10 is the only transaction fee, but that’s only for outgoing checks. If let’s say, you have one of these apartment deals, and they pay you monthly or quarterly dividends, we don’t charge for the money coming into your account.

Jack: But do you charge for the…if they make the decision to invest, let’s say, $100,000 with us or somebody else, and you help them because obviously, ultimately, your signature goes on there because, for the listeners, the way this works is that it’s almost like you have your money, it’s your money, but it’s, kind of like, the custodian, you here, Terry, is in charge, not of investing the money, but is taking your instructions on what to do with the money. Otherwise, it just sits there if you don’t tell him what to do, right?

Terry: Yeah.

Jack: And if there’s, like, subscription documents, in many cases, the extra custodian needs to sign subscription or cosign them with the actual investor so that because it’s almost like a different…it’s not almost, it is a different entity that you own, but that somebody else, kind of, writes the checks…

Terry: Manages.

Jack: …for and manages for you. So, therefore, some companies charge, and quite a few actually charge a fee for every investment placement. So, let’s say, we’re gonna invest $100,000, because they have to review the paperwork and there’s work and labor involved, they also charge a fee for that.

Terry: Yeah. Well, so let’s say you moved over $500,000 into your IRA with us. So at that point in time, the account is set up and it’s set up as Sunwest Trust as custodian for Terry White’s IRA. So Sunwest actually holds title to the asset, in this case, cash for the benefit of the individual IRA account owner. Now, then you direct us to invest $100,000 with you, we would take $100,010 out of your account and make that $100,000 investment. Now, if there are documents, and there will be, documents that we need to sign, as the owner of that asset, Sunwest Trust as custodian for the IRA, we don’t charge anything for signing those documents. So, if they’re buying real…

Jack: That’s good. Because there’s quite a few companies that actually do charge, so that’s a really good, right there, competitive benefit that you guys have.

Terry: Well, the one thing, you know, what we try to do, and I’ve looked at some of my competitors fee schedules, and I’m in this business, I’ve been in this particular business for 20 years, and I can’t figure out what my fee would be after a year with these other companies. With Sunwest, you go and you’ll know that you’re gonna get a bill from us next year on your anniversary date for 275 bucks, period. That’s it. And as you make transactions, we’re gonna take $10 when we cut checks, you know, then we’re gonna take $25 if we send a wire. That’s it. But at the end of every year, you’re gonna get one bill from us for 275 bucks. And that’s if you have $10,000 in your account with 1 investment, or you have $1 million in your account with 5 investments. It doesn’t matter.

Jack: Wonderful. That is really good. I have to say. I mean, having been faced with a lot of custodians when investors bring in money to us, that is one of the better offers that I’ve seen. So what is the company name? So how can people reach you?

Terry: Sunwest Trust. We are Sunwest Trust. Our website… Huh?

Jack: Okay. Go ahead. The website for that?

Terry: The website is sunwesttrust.com. And if people are interested, @sunwestira on YouTube. I think I have about 235 videos or something like that, that talk about various aspects. A lot of them talk directly about real estate, and they’re just, you know, five to seven minutes long, it doesn’t take a lot of time. And you can really get a lot of information. I also offer a free book, if anyone is interested, they can go to our website at sunwesttrust.com and either get the e-book, or they can fill out a request form and we’ll mail them a physical book.

Jack: Wonderful. All right. Well, that’s really good. So, thank you very much. I enjoyed our conversation about notes. Perhaps the last question about notes, going back to that one, what do you typically see is the number one mistake people do before they, when they…in the note generating business before they send you or as they send you the notes or mistakes in the paperwork, or just any minor mistakes having dealt with lots of sellers that are being the bank?

Terry: Yeah. You know, that’s a great question, because the problem answering that question is, every single note is unique, you know, because people come up with something different in every one. I think the most important thing is to make sure that the…and again, I don’t know how it works in Arizona, but some of the problems we run into here is the buyer doesn’t realize that they’re responsible for the property taxes, and they don’t realize that, you know, we don’t know what the property taxes are until they bring us a bill. And so they have to bring us the property tax bill so then we can pay it. If we’re holding for taxes on land, there wouldn’t be insurance necessarily. But if we’re escrowing money for the taxes, we have to have the bill.

The other thing is, I think is from a buyer’s point of view in Arizona and New Mexico, the buyers need to understand that they could lose that property pretty quickly if they’re not making their payments on time and so sometimes people misunderstand that. They also misunderstand, if there’s a grace period, from the time the payment is due until the late charge kicks in. Sometimes, here in New Mexico, they think that that means a demand letter can’t go out until that grace period kicks in, but that’s not the case. If your payment is due on the 1st, it’s due on the 1st, regardless of whether you don’t have a late fee until the 15th or something, a seller can send a demand letter any day after the 1st and start that cure default period.

Jack: Okay. Wonderful. Yeah, that’s some good points. I wanna perhaps add one from the seller’s point of view. The biggest mistakes we have made is not asking for enough down payment. Because particularly in the land side, the foreclosure rate shoots up like crazy if you are below a certain dollar amount, which, again, on our lower rates $5,000, $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, kind of, [inaudible 00:29:03], it’s like if you’re below that, let’s say, definitely below the $1,000, it’s like a mistake because you get half of the…not half, but 25% ultimately, don’t pay if you let them do a very minimal down payment. And obviously, that goes up as the price goes up. But that’s one of the things that a lot of sellers do wrong. So, wonderful.

Terry: Well, and as I buy debt all the time. That’s how I actually got in this business. Back in ’85, I bought a real estate contract from…I bought the seller’s interest in a real estate contract. And, you know, I typically won’t even look at a real estate contract to purchase unless there’s 10% down and those are typically on homes, not just on vacant land. But, yeah, I think that’s a great point is, you know, if people don’t have skin in the game, as they say, it’s easy for them to walk away, and especially if it’s just vacant land, you know, they can walk away with their…

Jack: They don’t live there.

Terry: Yeah. If it’s a house that they’re living in, it’s a little more difficult and they’re a little more diligent about making their payments. But if it’s just land that they hope to build on one of these days or they hoped would go up in value or something, it’s easy. The less money they have in it, the easier it is for them to walk away.

Jack: Absolutely. Well, with that, thank you very much. I enjoyed that. Thank you very much, Terry.

Terry: Thank you.

Jack: Thanks for being on the show. And with that, that concludes another episode of The Forever Cash Real Estate…Forever Cash Live. Sorry, I can’t spell the name of my own podcast anymore. “The Forever Cash Live Real Estate” podcast. If you create cash flow and you use the proper resources like Terry’s loan servicing company, you can use or solve [SP] his custodian account, the trust account that you can use to invest in land deals like that, not only can you create cash flow that lasts for a long time, you also can build up your retirement nest egg, and therefore, have a much, much better chance to be one of those currently only 4% of the population that can retire in style. So with that, thank you very much.

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